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Can foreigners ever understand Chinese culture?
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Disenchant –
Quote:
as a foreign chinese i can easily understand their behavior, their thinking, what is the deeper
meanings in their seemingly casual talks, but i cant adapt to it.
Hey buddy, I thought you said you weren’t an ABC? Unless you just mean that you were born in China
and then brought and raised in the US at a young age — in terms of assimilation, equating to the
same damn thing.
Edit: Did you just purposefully label yourself a foreigner? Nationalities are easy to change in
comparison to bloodline, tot.
—
Foreigners don’t understand Chinese culture because they don’t possess the cultural memory. It’s
something that has to be indoctrinated at a young, impressionable age. It’s not something that can
deputized by academia or observation; it’s much more subconscious.
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holyman –
america isnt the only place for foreign chinese, i could be a bbc, nzbc, germanbc, jpbc, whatever.
roddy –
I think the most important part of this is the distinction between ‘understanding’ and
‘assimilating’. If you study something enough, you can understand it – but that doesn’t mean you
could feel comfortable living as a part of a Chinese family or whatever – especially when
something in Chinese culture conflicts with your own.
I can understand why the Chinese people around me make the choices and decisions they do – but I
would find it very difficult to do the same myself, or probably even very uncomfortable just to be
in the position of having to make those choices under the same circumstances.
I think it’s true that foreigners would find it very difficult to completely be a part of Chinese
culture – but that’s true for any cross-cultural situation, particularly when the ‘gap’ is so
large. Can be done of course, through long-term comittment or necessity.
Difficult to ‘understand’ though? No more than anything else is difficult – you just need a bit of
time and someone to explain it. A few times I’ve been told I don’t ‘understand’ Chinese culture.
Just ask them to explain it. It’s not rocket science.
Roddy
bjgodefr –
It’s not fair to say to someone who is doing an effort that he never can understand chinese
culture (or way of thinking). Being a bit more constructive could come in handy here.
Personally I ‘ve encountered this kind of thinking with some of my Chinese friends. Sometimes
(yes I do NOT want to generalize) I think it wouldn’t hurt for Chinese to try to understand how
non-Chinese people think & reason.
And yes, this last sentence also goes for some non-Chinese people.
bhchao –
Quote:
I think it’s true that foreigners would find it very difficult to completely be a part of Chinese
culture – but that’s true for any cross-cultural situation, particularly when the ‘gap’ is so
large. Can be done of course, through long-term comittment or necessity.
I agree with Roddy. Recently I came across a book called Samurai William, which talks about the
life of the Englishman William Adams in 17th century Japan. Adams was one tough man who endured
many hardships on his voyage to Japan while others died. When his ship shipwrecked off the coast
of Japan, he was one of only a handful to survive the journey. He and his crew were imprisoned by
the orders of Tokugawa Ieyasu, who saw Adams as an interesting character and admired him for his
resilience. Furthermore, Adams and the English were enemies of the Portuguese and Jesuits, which
pleased Ieyasu even more. Adams started to learn the Japanese language and became Ieyasu’s court
interpreter for dealings with the Portuguese traders. It is amazing that Adams was able to become
remarkably fluent in Japanese given that there were no dictionaries or translating material in his
day.
Adams stayed in Japan for 22 years for the remainder of his life. He wanted to return to England
but the Shogun forbade him to leave the country. Adams gradually became “Japanese” and took the
culture as his own. He treated his hosts with courtesy and respect, and he was very much respected
by the Japanese. As time passed, Adams looked with disdain at the behavior of the Dutch and
Portuguese traders, who acted like ruly, rowdy drunks. Ieyasu greatly appreciated Adams’ service
and rewarded him by giving him a large mansion in Edo. He was allowed to wear two samurai swords
and Ieyasu granted him the privilege of marrying a samurai’s daughter.
Sorry, I’m straying off the subject here. But as Roddy mentioned, being completely a part of
foreign culture can be done through sheer willpower and long-term commitment, as illustrated by
Adams’ example.
Green Pea –
Nice post Tsunku.
Quote:
Foreigners don’t understand Chinese culture because they don’t possess the cultural memory. It’s
something that has to be indoctrinated at a young, impressionable age. It’s not something that can
deputized by academia or observation; it’s much more subconscious.
If it’s subconscious, then that implies Chinese don’t understand it either?
Disenchant –
Quote:
america isnt the only place for foreign chinese, i could be a bbc, nzbc, germanbc, jpbc, whatever.
You’re missing the point. You don’t have to 继续摆出你那一套羞愧祖国的习惯. It’s
obnoxious as hell. Continously insinuating you have an inferiority complex is a tedious routine.
—
Quote:
If it’s subconscious, then that implies Chinese don’t understand it either?
No, it implies most people (of any culture) don’t take the time to psychoanalyze their culture or
societal propensities, but exercise it anyway. Obviously, if you’re a foreigner and you haven’t
internalized the Chinese culture, you can’t really fully understand it, and will always view it
from an external perspective, whether that is an objective perspective is really quite disputable
as societal leanings of polar societies (i.e. the oriental and the occidental) are sometimes
inherently contradictory. You can of course simulate empathy, but that’s all it remains, as you
still can’t fully reconstruct the inclinations, upbringing, loyalties…there’s an emotional
context that is always missing. And you’re always going to be carrying personal baggage of your
own.
—
Quote:
But as Roddy mentioned, being completely a part of foreign culture can be done through sheer
willpower and long-term commitment, as illustrated by Adams’ example.
lol, a English ‘Dances with Wolves’ guy.
bhchao –
Quote:
You’re missing the point. You don’t have to 继续摆出你那一套羞愧祖国的习惯. It’s
obnoxious as hell. Continously insinuating you have an inferiority complex is a tedious routine.
This is a very arrogant statement.
Quote:
No, it implies most people (of any culture) don’t take the time to psychoanalyze their culture or
societal propensities, but exercise it anyway. Obviously, if you’re a foreigner and you haven’t
internalized the Chinese culture, you can’t really fully understand it, and will always view it
from an external perspective, whether that is an objective perspective is really quite disputable
as societal leanings of polar societies (i.e. the oriental and the occidental) are sometimes
inherently contradictory. You can of course simulate empathy, but that’s all it remains, as you
still can’t fully reconstruct the inclinations, upbringing, loyalties…there’s an emotional
context that is always missing. And you’re always going to be carrying personal baggage of your
own.
Is this paragraph even coherent? Not sure what you are getting at, but you seem to ramble without
getting to the point.
Quote:
Foreigners don’t understand Chinese culture because they don’t possess the cultural memory. It’s
something that has to be indoctrinated at a young, impressionable age. It’s not something that can
deputized by academia or observation; it’s much more subconscious.
What? So Chinese DO have the cultural memory to understand other cultures?
Disenchant –
…
What direction are you trying to pull this? The topic of discussion is foreigners to Chinese
culture — not the other way around. And my point is, many who claim to objectively understand
Chinese society are actually pretentious posers.
holyman –
Quote:
You’re missing the point. You don’t have to 继续摆出你那一套羞愧祖国的习惯. It’s
obnoxious as hell. Continously insinuating you have an inferiority complex is a tedious routine.
kekeke, what is ur point when u say ‘Hey buddy, I thought you said you weren’t an ABC?’ ? whose
‘motherland’ was that u are talking about? do u think china is the motherland to every ‘chinese’?
Quote:
If it’s subconscious, then that implies Chinese don’t understand it either?
partially correct. chinese dont understand every part of it. they understand the part they are
exposed to. example, in certain parts of china, or among certain groups of chinese, its ok to pick
up your bowl when u eat. while in some other place, or among some other groups, its not polite to
do so. group A probably cant explain what group B’s rationale is. of course, most habits and
customs are the same thruout china, but there are still some differences.
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